Not as bad as

Cogito ergo sum
Logic and rhetoric

Key articles

* Logical fallacy
* Syllogism
* Argument

General logic

* Modus tollens
* Open mind
* Appeal to pity
* Pierre d'Ailly
* Genuine but insignificant cause
* Fallibilism

Bad logic

* Demonization
* Moving the goalposts
* Gore's Law
* Moral equivalence
* 稻草人谬误
* Conjunction fallacy

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“”If you can't complain about X just because there exists another problem, Y, that's worse than X, then the only person who has any right to complain at all is the person who objectively has it worst in every way possible. The other 7 billion people's problems are meaningless by this reasoning.

—/u/frictionless_vacuum[1]

The "not as bad as" fallacy, also known as the fallacy of relative privation,[2] asserts that:

1. If something is worse than the problem currently being discussed, then
2. The problem currently being discussed isn't that important at all.
3. In order for the statement "A is not as bad as B," to suggest a fallacy there must be a fallacious conclusion such as: ignore A.

In other words: nothing matters if it's not literally the worst thing happening.[note 1] It's popular with people who know perfectly well they're doing something wrong. Since they are fully aware that they're doing something wrong, they feel compelled to attempt to justify it and do so by pointing to other (usually worse) actions.

This fallacy is a form of the moral equivalence fallacy.

## Contents

* 1 Forms
* 2 Examples
* 2.1 Sometimes valid
* 3 Caveat
* 4 Other examples
* 5 In a nutshell
* 6 See also
* 7 Notes
* 8 References

## Forms[edit]

“”To be good, it is not enough to be better than the worst.
| Original in Latin:

Bonitas non est pessimis esse meliorem.

—Lucius Annaeus Seneca

There are a few different reasons someone will want to pull a "not as bad as" comparison. Consider a generic argument about something, A, and the reasoning below:

P1: B happened.

P2: B is worse than A.

C: Therefore A is justified.

This is the most blatantly fallacious form of the argument and is a hindsight version of the "not as bad as" argument that states past actions can legitimise current actions. The existence of a worse atrocity in the past, however, does not actually justify anything — it merely points out that there have been similar things in the past. People who use this as a justification may be well aware that it's logically fallacious, and use it purely as rhetoric, or as a distraction. It removes all nuances.

## Examples[edit]

Indeed. (Created by SMBC)

Holocaust deniers and apologists use this quite frequently: "the Holocaust was bad, but Stalin killed more", ignoring the Axis's willingness to encourage World War II and is irrelevant if discussing murders carried out under Hitler's regime. Similarly, "Internet censorship in the US isn't as bad as internet censorship in China" is true, but not relevant to discussing the erosion of free speech in a country that holds free speech to be an important part of human rights. It is irrational to set the bar of what makes something wrong at the worst possible atrocity, as doing so would justify all other actions except the one that is judged to be the worst at any given moment.

It is also used occasionally as a particularly underhanded emotional appeal, in an attempt to guilt trip someone, in order to have them stop voicing a complaint. For two examples, there's "Kids of the past had it way harder than modern kids, so modern kids should shut up!!" (When I was your age…) and the ever-prevalent "Kids are starving in Africa!" argument, often used by parents to shut down a debate posed to them by a child, and also by others to shut down any complaint someone might have about something affecting them personally in the here and now.

### Sometimes valid[edit]

Action B is worse than action A.
Therefore action A is the right thing to do.

This is perhaps the most valid comparison that can be drawn if discussing two courses of action that can be taken, but like most "not as bad as" arguments potentially suffers from the fallacies of the false dichotomy and argument from adverse consequences. If the argument is about ranking things from bad to worse then it's fine; but you cannot justify A by citing only B because the two may not have anything to do with each other. This is common if secret option C is actually the best, but someone wants to make a red herring to avoid anyone spotting its existence.

B happens more frequently, is more dangerous, or causes more harm than A.
Therefore A can be ignored.

This form crops up often when discussing discrimination, but seriously falls into the false dichotomy trap by implying that one can only focus their attention on A or B and is incapable of expressing moral outrage over both. Oftentimes, regressive groups that oppose each other (Christian fundamentalists vs. Islamic fundamentalists, or white supremacists vs. black supremacists, or fascists vs. communists, for example) may point to their mirror image and say that the other group is worse than them, to create false balance or pretend that the other group is an equally big threat when they aren't. The Klan would have a much easier time seizing power in America than the New Black Panther Party, even if neither would have an easy time in absolute terms. But that doesn't mean you can't hate both white and black supremacy, while at the same time acknowledging that Western countries, being mostly white, are much more vulnerable to white supremacy.

A similar form appeals to allocation of scarce resources, such as money, time, or attention, to give the best "bang-for-your-buck":

We have a finite budget that we can use to fix either A or B.
A is not as bad as B.
Therefore, we should fix B.

Setting priorities for limited resources is often a valid pragmatic argument when picking the lesser of two evils, even if it doesn't morally absolve A of any wrongs.

A is a better option because its only alternative is B, which is worse.
Therefore we must keep A.

This is a pragmatic argument if the alternative, B, really does pose a real threat, and there is no secret option C. Would assassinating a dictator in some random country create a power-vacuum that plunges the entire region into war? Then we best put up with the bastard for now! It's also a common pro-choice argument; a legal abortion in a medical clinic is statistically the safer option compared to a back alley with some bleach and a coat hanger. So even if you believe abortion is always morally wrong, providing legal access to safe abortions is preferable to women risking their lives by having unsafe abortions.

Whether these latter forms of the "not as bad as" argument are fallacious comes down to the use of a false dichotomy and whether moral justification is sought exclusively through this argument.

## Caveat[edit]

While this fallacy is certainly one to be argued against, the rational arguer should be cautious in doing so in cases where X and Y lie on a recognisable continuum. Taken too far in such a case, efforts against this fallacy ("X is not as bad as Y") may readily lead an arguer into a continuum fallacy ("X and Y fall on a continuum, therefore X is indistinguishable from, or equally bad to, Y). To avoid this, the arguer must be sure to argue against the conclusion drawn from the difference between X and Y, and not against the claim of difference itself (unless there is some rational basis for arguing that the difference truly does not exist).

## Other examples[edit]

* Stalin apologists will commonly use this logic, saying "Stalin wasn't as bad as Hitler" and will use this to ignore or deny Stalin's own genocides and crimes or even justify them in some cases. He was also not as bad as the Tsar![note 2]
* Men's rights activists frequently try to downplay the Western world's own issues with sexism and misogyny by comparing it to conditions in the Middle East. This can go from lazy and dishonest comparisons to open Islamophobia, white supremacy, and xenophobia very quickly.
* "Women are stereotyped by the media, but it isn't as big of a problem as poverty, wars, or human rights in the world!" (See Bjorn Lomborg for a similar one on global warming.)
* "Yes, the US is keeping secret prisons, but we're not as bad as Saddam Hussein!"
* "Sure, US forces tortured people in Afghanistan, but it's not as bad as what the Japanese did in WWII."
* "Catholic priests may rape children, but what about all the bad things Stalin did?"
* "Barack Obama might be detaining people without trial and bombing civilians in other countries, but Bush did far worse."
* John McCain's "Sure, Americans are 'war-weary' but what about the 'war-weariness' of Syrians?"[3]
* "Smoking may be a bad thing, but it's not as bad as global warming/car exhausts/body odor/etc."
* "Sure, many developed countries may still have homelessness, but at least here they have bridges to sleep under and garbage cans to eat out of!"
* Sure, institutional discrimination against non-Christians exists in European countries with an established religion, but it's not as bad as Saudi Arabia; besides, look at those freaks in the megachurches in the US!
* Gun rights advocates sometimes argue that gun ownership shouldn't be restricted, because people driving cars cause more deaths than people using guns and we're not restricted from owning cars.[note 3]
* Sam Harris has said that obtaining information through torture is less immoral than killing innocents as collateral damage, so in any scenario where torture could prevent the need for collateral damage, torture is the less unethical thing to do. This is a valid use of the argument, though it ignores all practical considerations about the efficacy of torture (or lack thereof). He has also said that allowing secular tyrants like Saddam Hussein to oppress their populace is a better alternative than allowing populist theocrats like Daesh to rise to power.
* "Bashar al-Assad may be a brutal tyrant, but at least he's not as bad as Daesh!"
* "American slavery may have been bad, but the Arabs did worse!"
* Some naturopaths and promoters of integrative medicine level criticisms against conventional medical research and practices, claiming that the skepticism of CAM is therefore misguided, hypocritical, and/or ideological.[4] However, as Ben Goldacre succinctly puts it, "flaws in aircraft design do not prove the existence of magic carpets."
* "RationalWiki may have just stepped on your personal toe, but it's not as bad as Conservapedia!"
* George W. Bush was not as bad as Donald Trump.
* Donald Trump fans often claim that Trump is not as bad as Obama.
* When police want to speak to someone about a minor offence, the response is often along the lines of “shouldn’t you be catching real criminals?”, as if their offense is not worth bothering about just because others commit worse offenses. And that itself is not as bad as the people who just shout "ACAB" at them…
* "Sure, British colonialism in Africa was bad, but India had it much worse."[5]
* Ukraine is not suffering as much as Palestine. [note 4]

## In a nutshell[edit]

Your point that the world contains multiple problems is a real slam-dunk argument against fixing any of them.

## See also[edit]

* First world problems
* Slippery slope
* Two wrongs make a right
* False dilemma
* Balance fallacy
* Whataboutery
* What's the harm

## Notes[edit]

1. ↑ This has also been expressed as "the good old 'someone, somewhere has it worse so you have no right to complain' fallacy" and the "'starving kids in Africa' fallacy".
2. ↑ And of course, conservatives retroactively claim that the Tsar was justified because he wasn't as bad as Stalin!
3. ↑ But they are regulated, aren't they?
4. ↑ Add some typical vatnik arguments such as Ukraine allegedly being a NATO puppet.

## References[edit]

1. ↑ https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/3xw2xt/trackreddit/cy8h0l7/
2. ↑ Bennett, Bo (2012). "Relative Privation". Logically Fallacious: The Ultimate Collection of Over 300 Logical Fallacies. `{{cite book}}`: `|access-date=` requires `|url=` (help); External link in ``|chapter=`` (help)
3. ↑ McCain: Sanctions Are Not Enough Against Putin, NPR
4. ↑ Katz, "Cleaning the House of Medicine"
5. ↑ [1]

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Articles about logical fallacies

Informal fallacies: |  Appeal to tradition • Appeal to novelty • Appeal to nature • Argument from morality • Argumentum ad martyrdom • Big words • Certum est quia impossibile est • Morton's fork • Friend argument • Exception that proves the rule • Extended analogy • Hindsight bias • Race card • Moralistic fallacy • Release the data • Gish Gallop • Terrorism-baiting • Uncertainty tactic • Greece-baiting • Ham Hightail • Red-baiting • Gore's Law • Nazi analogies • Mistaking the map for the territory • Red herring • Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur • Presentism • Sunk cost • Two wrongs make a right • Flying carpet fallacy • My enemy's enemy • Appeal to ancient wisdom • Danth's Law • Argumentum ad lunam • Balance fallacy • Golden hammer • Loaded question • Escape to the future • Word magic • Spider-Man fallacy • Sanctioning the devil • Appeal to mystery • Informal fallacy • Common sense • Post-designation • Hyperbole • Relativist fallacy • Due diligence • Straw man • Good old days • Appeal to probability • Infinite regress • Circular reasoning • Media was wrong before • Is–ought problem • Ad iram • Just asking questions • Pink-baiting • Appeal to faith • Appeal to fear • Appeal to bias • Appeal to confidence • Appeal to consequences • Appeal to emotion • Appeal to flattery • Appeal to gravity • Appeal to hate • Argument from omniscience • Argument from silence • Argumentum ad baculum • Argumentum ad fastidium • Association fallacy • Broken window fallacy • Category mistake • Confounding factor • Counterfactual fallacy • Courtier's Reply • Damning with faint praise • Definitional fallacies • Equivocation • Fallacy of accent • Fallacy of accident • Fallacy of amphiboly • Gambler's fallacy • Imprecision fallacy • Moving the goalposts • Nirvana fallacy • Overprecision • Pathos gambit • Pragmatic fallacy • Quote mining • Argumentum ad sarcina inserta • Science doesn't know everything • Slothful induction • Spotlight fallacy • Style over substance • Toupee fallacy • Genuine but insignificant cause • Argument from incredulity • Appeal to age • Argumentum ad nauseam • Phantom distinction • Appeal to common sense • Argumentum ad hysteria • Omnipotence paradox • Argument from etymology • Appeal to trauma • Countless counterfeits fallacy •
| Ad hoc: |  No True Scotsman • Moving the goalposts • Escape hatch • Handwave • Special pleading • Slothful induction • Nirvana fallacy • God of the gaps • PIDOOMA • Ad hoc • Tone argument •
| Arguments from ignorance: |  Science doesn't know everything • Argument from incredulity • Argument from silence • Toupee fallacy • Appeal to censorship • Science was wrong before • Holmesian fallacy • Argument from omniscience • Willful ignorance • Argument from ignorance •
| Causation fallacies: |  Post hoc, ergo propter hoc • Correlation does not imply causation • Wrong direction • Counterfactual fallacy • Regression fallacy • Gambler's fallacy • Denying the antecedent • Genuine but insignificant cause •
| Circular reasoning: |  Infinite regress • Argument by assertion • Argumentum ad dictionarium • Appeal to faith • Circular reasoning • Self-refuting idea •
| Emotional appeals: |  Appeal to fear • Appeal to emotion • Appeal to confidence • Deepity • Argumentum ad baculum • Appeal to shame • Appeal to flattery • Tone argument • Appeal to money • Argumentum ad fastidium • Appeal to gravity • Appeal to consequences • Loaded language • Style over substance • Appeal to pity • Appeal to hate • Pathos gambit • Shaming • Degenerate • Abomination •
| Fallacies of ambiguity: |  Fallacy of accent • Equivocation • Fallacy of amphiboly • Quote mining • Fallacy of ambiguity • Moral equivalence • Scope fallacy • Suppressed correlative • Etymology • Continuum fallacy • Wronger than wrong • Definitional fallacies • Code word • Phantom distinction •
Formal fallacies: |  Confusion of the inverse • Denying the antecedent • Non sequitur • Affirmative conclusion from a negative premise • Not even wrong • Chewbacca Defense • Affirming a disjunct • Illicit process • Four-term fallacy • Negative conclusion from affirmative premises • Fallacy fallacy • Substituting explanation for premise • Enthymeme • Syllogism • Formal fallacy • Existential assumption • Masked man fallacy • Self-refuting idea • Argument by gibberish • One single proof • Affirming the consequent • False dilemma • Conjunction fallacy •
Fallacious arguments: |  Bumblebee argument • Fatwa envy • Gotcha argument • Hoyle's fallacy • Intuition pump • Logic and Creation • Not Circular Reasoning • Peanut butter argument • Great Beethoven fallacy • Fallacy of unique founding conditions • Evil is the absence of God • Argument from first cause • How do you know? Were you there? • Argument from design • Argument from beauty • Appeal to nature • Solferino fallacy • Religious scientists • Nothing to hide • Argument from fine tuning • Creep shaming • "I used to be an atheist" • Atheism as a religion • Argumentum ad populum • Argument from morality • Anti-environmentalism • Appeal to bias • Apophasis • Argumentum ad nauseam • Appeal to censorship • Argumentum ad sarcina inserta • Blaming the victim • Bait-and-switch • Danth's Law • Chewbacca Defense • Canard • DARVO • Demonization • Escape hatch • Friend argument • Everyone is racist • Gish Gallop • Greece-baiting • Gore's Law • Ham Hightail • Just asking questions • Leading question • Loaded language • Linking to authority • Loaded question • Lying by omission • Motte and bailey • Nazi analogies • Moving the goalposts • One single proof • Pink-baiting • One-way hash argument • Pathos gambit • Quote mining • Poisoning the well • Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur • Race card • Red-baiting • Red herring • Release the data • Science was wrong before • Shill gambit • Straw man • Silent Majority • Uncertainty tactic • Style over substance • Terrorism-baiting • Weasel word • What's the harm (logical fallacy) • Whataboutism • Bullshit • Logical fallacy • Banana argument • Scapegoat • How come there are still monkeys? • Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white • Ontological argument • Omnipotence paradox • Presuppositionalism • Just a joke • Countless counterfeits fallacy •
Conditional fallacies: |  Slippery slope • What's the harm (logical fallacy) • Special pleading • Conditional fallacy • On the spot fallacy • Appeal to the minority • Argumentum ad populum • Galileo gambit • Professor of nothing •
| Genetic fallacies: |  Genetic fallacy •
|  | Appeals to authority: |  Ipse dixit • Appeal to confidence • Argumentum ad populum • Argument from authority • Linking to authority • Silent Majority • Invincible authority • Appeal to celebrity • Ultracrepidarianism • Appeal to the minority • Galileo gambit • Appeal to identity • Weasel word • Professor of nothing • Euthyphro dilemma • Divine command theory •
|  | Ad hominem: |  Ad iram • Argumentum ad cellarium • Bulverism • Poisoning the well • Blaming the victim • Tu quoque • Whataboutism • Nutpicking • Jonanism • Demonization • Shill gambit • Appeal to bias • Fallacy of opposition • Association fallacy • Damning with faint praise • Pathos gambit • Appeal to identity • Argumentum ad hominem • Nazi analogies • Not an argument • Nothing to hide • Scapegoat • 地下室论证 •
| Imprecision fallacies: |  Apex fallacy • Overprecision • Cherry picking • Overgeneralization • Texas sharpshooter fallacy • False analogy • Appeal to fiction • Spotlight fallacy • Pragmatic fallacy • Selection bias • Anecdotal evidence • Category mistake • Nutpicking • Imprecision fallacy • Confounding factor • Fallacy of accident • Neyman's bias •
Valid logical methods: |  Rapoport's Rules • Negative evidence • Reductio ad absurdum •
Fallacy collections: |  SeekFind • Nizkor Project • Fallacy Files • Your Logical Fallacy Is • Logically Fallacious •